Ben Driver

James (00:00)
Welcome to Big Bad Beautiful Brains. I’m James. Since I was diagnosed at the age of 45 with autism and ADHD, I’ve been on a journey not only to discover how my brain works and how to look after myself, but also about other people’s brains and how they look after theirs.

I’ll be speaking to people from all different backgrounds, all different ages, and all different experiences to understand how they think and how their big bad beautiful brains work.

James (00:30)
Hello, welcome to another episode of Big Bad Beautiful Brains. This is the final episode for this run. I hope you’ve enjoyed listening.

It’s been a real joy to put these together and have these conversations. I’ve got lots more lined up, ⁓ but this is the last one in this run. And this week I’m talking to Ben Driver. Ben describes himself as a gentle creative soul with the ever-growing rebellious streak, He’s moved through life with openness.

and kind of taking opportunities as they come. And I think you’ll find from the conversation, it’s really fascinating to see how Ben’s thought processes have changed over the years,

It’s a very honest conversation and we ⁓ sat in the middle of a park in Ipswich and had a brilliant chat. So I hope you enjoy this. Thank you so much for listening over the last few weeks. I hope you’ve got something out of it.

and I’ll be back again in the new year with some more episodes. Until then, enjoy this one and toodle pip!

James (01:42)
Hi Ben. Hi. How are you?

Ben (01:43)
Hi! I’m pretty

good.

James (01:44)
Thanks.

Awesome. Thank you for joining me. Today we are ⁓ in the middle of a park in Ipswich. I’d like to offer guests the opportunity to do little field trip with me and find somewhere outdoors to record ⁓ and probably all of the technical challenges that come with it. So we’ll see how we get on. ⁓ Welcome Ben and welcome your big bad beautiful brain. Thanks very much. I’m going to ask you some questions and we’ll see how we go.

What’s a song or sound that’s been stuck in your head recently?

Ben (02:16)
I’m completely obsessed with every single song by Unknown Mortal Orchestra. They are my go-to. If I never know what to listen to, I listen to them. And they just blend so many genres together and I really love that. And they also have…

James (02:25)
Okay.

Ben (02:42)
tracks which they’ve produced which are more like soundscapes or more just like experiments with sounds so I really love that they sort of combine all of that one in their music but also specialise in just sort of experimenting so literally all of their stuff

James (02:57)
And is there a particular go-to track of theirs that you use sometimes either if you’re feeling like you want to have a little bit of a mood lift or if you need to decompress a little bit? Is there a particular song of theirs that makes you go, that’s the one I need to go to? Yeah!

Ben (03:15)
There’s, I think it’s still their most recent release, I think it’s called Curse. It’s like just like a little EP and it’s really witchy and cool. And there’s a song on there called, ⁓ I think it’s the boy with characteristics of wolves. And ⁓ it’s just like an instant vibe check. It’s just like, boom, I can feel anything and now I feel better. And it’s just really cool.

James (03:42)
nice? Is that saved to kind of top of your favorites or in a playlist? You know exactly where to find it!

Ben (03:48)
Yeah,

exactly that. It’s like, ⁓ Like two clicks away at all possible moments.

James (03:55)
Okay,

nice. What’s something you’ve been curious about lately?

Ben (04:00)
so many things. I… Very curious about how people perceive me. And… I know that’s not something that should necessarily be dwelled upon. But, I’ve… I think because I’ve been… Recently I’ve been finding myself…

finding myself in lots of different environments which I’m actively putting myself within in the hope of trying to connect with more people that are on like my level but then that ultimately means I get lots of different responses to me whether that’s verbalized or body language-ized or whatever so ⁓

But, you know, that whole idea of being perceived by other people is quite a…

James (04:58)
curiosity? Do you find yourself kind of ruminating too much on what people think of you?

Ben (05:09)
Yeah, I think it’s very easy to, especially with that. But I guess for me, experience tells me that it falls into the negative or the misunderstood kind of category. if people…

If people’s body language is off or they’re not as sort of communicative as maybe I would like them to be with me, then the assumption is that they either don’t care or they don’t find me interesting or they don’t know how to engage with what I’ve just said. Which, like, the rational side of my brain could just be like, well, that just means they’re not necessarily your people. Or…

⁓ And you know, doesn’t stop you from connecting and being nice on a… Or just being nice. But yeah, it then… I think it then afterwards I’m just like… I just overthink it all and I’m just like, But… I mean, I also want to be friends with everyone, so it’s like… Why don’t you want to be my friend?

James (06:13)
Yeah, I feel like I get exactly the same thing sometimes. it’s something that I’m, it’s one of the things I’m trying to practice on is kind of not attaching expectation to stuff and also ⁓ being, trying to be a little bit more carefree, which is easier said than done about outcomes and encounters that it’s.

⁓ It’s sometimes best to just kind of let it go past and not hang around in your head. But that comes with like a lot of practice and a lot of kind of ⁓ getting out of habits of, like you say, the people pleasing side of things and trying to be a little bit more, nah, well, next thing. ⁓ But that can be hard.

Ben (06:57)
I guess as

well because I’m quite aware of my own growth and I think I’m generally quite a perceptive person and I’m very aware of things like people’s body language and stuff like that so…

I think it’s very easy for me to connect the dots but not necessarily in the right way. Or that I can connect all the dots and then I interpret it the wrong way as opposed to one thing having different possible outcomes or different meanings. I’m just like, no bad.

James (07:30)
terrible experience or good experience and trying to not attach the emotion to those experiences is kind of, it’s that kind of practice and checking in with yourself a bit that how far you have come as part of that as well and kind of remembering that it’s better than it used to be.

Ben (07:46)
Yes, for sure.

James (07:50)
⁓ If you had to describe how your brain works in three words, what would they be and why?

Ben (07:55)
It’s like a tired thunderstorm. Just because it can change very rapidly and it can become very intense and…

dislike with thoughts and experiences and reliving things and trying to process anything and well everything at the same time and then it can just all of a sudden be like it just burns itself out and then it’s just like I can’t process anything at all and then it will just switch again

James (08:34)
go back into full speed chaotic thunderstorm.

Ben (08:37)
Yeah, being

struck by lightning, soaked through to the bone, and then nothing.

James (08:45)
and they’re nothing. yeah, so I guess chaotic, tired thunderstorm. ⁓ I mean, they’re three words we’ve not had yet. I think we may have had chaotic a couple of times, but… And is there anything that you have learned to do with self-care or some kind of awareness around looking after yourself to stop the burnout or the shutdowns from happening when your brain is particularly thunderstormy?

Ben (09:13)
⁓

For me, it’s trying to remember that I do have certain tools that I can access and use. So for me, being arty is the best way for me to process and either process what’s going on in my head or kind of move away from it.

as in so I don’t have to focus on it so intently. literally just doodling can relieve me quite a lot. ⁓ And just like the act of creation in whatever form that takes. ⁓ And then also like being outside and just being sort of in nature, it’s just like my brain’s being hugged.

James (09:58)
Yes, super rejuvenating just to get outside and even if it’s for five minutes, just five minutes sometimes, just having that moment, the ability to step away and have nothing or try and reach for nothing can be really powerful.

What’s something you’re still figuring out?

Ben (10:18)
Just, well, so many things. I… How to live. How to generally be. Yeah,

I’m generally speaking at a very transitory time in my life generally, but I’ve always been very curious.

without acting on it about how sometimes I’m just so slow at processing information and yeah, are just times when I can be having a conversation with someone and it’ll be like the next day and I’ll be like, ⁓ that’s what they were saying.

And it doesn’t happen all the time, which I think aids the confusion around it. But I don’t really understand that at all.

So for example, with like my brain generally, I don’t have any sort of diagnosis of anything, aside from the self diagnosis of just being a bit weird. And I don’t see that as a route which is useful to me, in part because of other sort of…

systems that I’ve come across in like the sort of healing space and like just that area of kind of growing your mindset and growing your being. I’ve come across different models and there’s one in particular which I lean way more towards than anything else which is this idea that you have like no bad parts but maybe one part of your brain is just ⁓

⁓ like working on an overdrive and then it’s trying to figure out why that’s happening as opposed to it being like this very prescriptive thing that you may or may not need medication for. So it’s kind of trying to link up all these different things which happens with my brain in accordance to like that model.

⁓ which is the thing I’m trying to still figure out. But instead of it being very clean cut, it’s very much about doing lots of inner work and diving quite deep into childhood experiences and all that kind of stuff. So it’s very much an ongoing process.

James (12:56)
think it’s a really good reminder that there’s a ⁓ lot of your own work that you have to do, whatever your neuro type, around kind of discovering who you are, how you function. ⁓

can be a lot of kind of self-reflection and not necessarily trying to grab bits that people say what works for them because nothing is linear with kind of thought processes and that sort of thing especially with busy minds and it’s sometimes finding your own coping mechanisms and talking to other people and and doing your own exploration into it and whether that’s ⁓ via a official diagnosis or leaning into

to kind of historic models of ⁓ self-reflection to a certain extent. And just trying different stuff. And if it doesn’t work, just go, okay, I know that doesn’t work. I’m gonna move to something else and try and find something that fits better with me and my thought patterns.

Ben (14:00)
And I think it’s very easy to forget different.

kind of things are relevant to us at different times in our lives. something, there might be something that might not work for me in terms of understanding who I am and my brain right now, but in like five years time, it might be super relevant. And because we’re always evolving and we’re always changing and our environment is always changing. So it’s, I think that’s what people find so overwhelming and what makes it quite difficult sometimes to access support or like know where to go and who to speak to because

We’re just on this conveyor belt of change all the time.

James (14:39)
And constant distractions and noise and shiny things and trying to get our attention while we should be spending more time looking after what’s already going on in our head rather than inviting more information and distraction and all the other chaos that comes with it.

Ben (14:54)
Yeah, exactly that.

James (14:55)
What’s something about everyday life that’s easy for you but hard for others or the other way around?

Ben (15:02)
I’ve had a lot of conversations recently where people tell me that I’m brave and it’s usually because I will go out into the world as a solo person and do random new things in different places with people I’ve never met before and all this kind of stuff and I find that really easy to just be like, there’s a thing happening over there.

going and and but loads of people I speak to are just like I would never I would never go and do that by myself or even or even like approach the idea of doing something like that something very different to you know their normal life ⁓ but yeah for ages now I’ve just

taking myself off into the world and just throwing myself into random environments and I’m not saying that in the moment it’s easy ⁓ but I’ve already committed so I just sort of turn up and I’m like I’m here now yeah and I do think it comes from especially at the minute this kind of this almost desperate need to find people to connect with

James (16:15)
Going with the flow is fine.

Ben (16:28)
⁓ I think that really propels that and I’m just really trying to find my home within people. But at the same time, I don’t know. I feel like I’ve spent a lot of my life by myself. So the idea of then just going somewhere by myself is just like every day and not this kind of scary thing which I have to mentally prepare for. ⁓

But yeah, there’s a lot of people I speak to who just find that the idea of doing that quite difficult and it would take them a lot to do that.

James (17:05)
Yeah, like I’m one of them. New places, new things. I always enjoy them. But the idea of them before they’ve happened is a real hurdle for me to kind of go, okay, I need to prepare myself. Like going to a restaurant, like a floor plan is always a helper and just having those things. But I’d love to have…

a little bit more of a relaxed mindset that I’m going to put myself into a situation and I’m going to figure it out afterwards, rather than try and figure out all the potential outcomes of it before it’s even actually happened.

Ben (17:45)
Yeah, I think on the flip side for me there’s definitely been times where I’ve put myself in these situations and then I’m suddenly like, I want to leave, I don’t know how to leave. ⁓ Or it’s just like really not what I want to be doing. And then I’m too polite. Well don’t think it’s a politeness thing actually, I think it’s just… ⁓

my brain is already committed to being there. and I’m just like, I don’t, don’t, I guess I don’t have the vocabulary to, to try and navigate myself out of it.

James (18:27)
It’s amazing. Someone, ⁓ I’m in exactly the same boat as you. And there’s been periods in the past where I’ve been at parties and that sort of thing. And I’ve come to realize as I get older that I hate social gatherings. I find them incredibly overwhelming. I can’t listen to one conversation. My brain tries to attach to all of them. And I’d always feel guilty about leaving or not have the kind of, I’d be kind of fidgeting by the door and never have the ability to remove myself. And then someone pointed out to me, you can just leave. You don’t have to go.

through the ⁓ politeness dance of exiting yourself from somewhere you can just walk out and if you want to let someone know that you’ve left just drop them a message yeah because they’ll probably check you their phone first before they after they’ve had a look around for you and it’s like I’m just not feeling that I’m going and and that’s all you need to say yeah I was like my god I’ve never really thought about it that way before but as the expectation of horror that I’ve removed myself from somewhere without announcing it and you can

do that and it’s fine but again it’s a it comes with practice and kind of understanding where to relieve the pressure from yourself being in those scenarios

Ben (19:38)
Yeah,

for sure. Yeah, because I guess as well, like, I think I would find it easier, like the situation you just described, if there was at least someone I knew in the room, because then I could, I think I would be comfortable enough, he says, to be like, if my friend was there to be like, hey friend, not sure about this one, because then…

they might also be feeling the same way. ⁓

James (20:12)
and

I was waiting for you to say something and then you both go, okay, good, we can go.

Ben (20:17)
and then you skip

joyfully out beyond the horizon. But yeah, guess, yeah, when it’s, I guess when there’s people like I don’t know, I guess I don’t really know what to do. But then, because then going back to what I said previously, I’m just like, I’m also very busy trying to figure out how I’m being perceived.

James (20:45)
Yeah, and I

think that could be the thing that’s holding you back is I don’t want to appear rude or I don’t want to appear like I haven’t enjoyed myself. It’s just a case that it’s fine, but I’m not, I’m feeling a little overwhelmed now and I need to step out of it. then part of that is removing the perception.

that you’re applying to other people that isn’t necessarily there. And that can be a big hurdle. But it’s an internal battle rather than something that’s really happening in the real world. But it doesn’t make it any easier.

Ben (21:22)
No.

And I guess if people are really gonna be like funny and weird about your existence then… Exactly, like, bye. you’re either going through so much of your own stuff that you’re in your own head or you’re just like, sorry, you’re a bad person.

James (21:32)
not your crowd.

Yeah, it’s so long and thanks for the mediocre experience.

Ben (21:48)
Yeah,

exactly.

James (21:51)
⁓ Have you found any approaches that make the world work better for you?

Ben (21:54)
just taking it so very slowly. Like, we live in such a busy world and we’re just confronted with stuff all the time. It’s so… It’s not difficult to see why everyone is so overstimulated and overwhelmed all the time. But… And for a long time I was… I was the one that…

had like 10 million jobs and wouldn’t quit any of them and wanted to make a good impression for everyone and all that kind of stuff and it was like well I

can’t carry on doing that. So in my own kind of context I had to slow down. I think the tricky thing is slowing down looks very different for everyone. So slowing down to one person could be kind of getting up every morning and making sure you have enough time for like a hot drink and making sure you eat properly before you then go out into the world but slowing down for somebody else.

could be having, you know, four jobs instead of five. So I appreciate that’s a very broad approach.

James (23:17)
Yeah, and I think it to the point you’re saying that everything’s very noisy. Everything’s vying for attention. Everything’s getting louder as part of it, as everyone tries to talk over each other, whether it’s advertisers or news organizations trying to force their opinion down your throat or just social media in general, or just kind of walking down the street, traffic noise, buses, billboard advertising. It’s all constant noise and it can sound

really easy to kind of slow down and do less but that’s really hard of trying to choose what to remove, what isn’t working for you and spending some real time.

stepping out of all of the business that you’re in and allowing yourself to kind of go, okay, I’m going to step out of all of this for a minute and take a objective view of what is actually making the most noise. Because sometimes it’s not necessarily the thing you think it is. Maybe it’s not the thing that you’re doing right at that moment, but you’re feeling overwhelmed. It could be something from three days ago, which is still kind of lingering. But you have to have a fairly kind of objective view of your whole

existence to a certain extent sounds a little bit highfalutin but ⁓ to be able to pick out where the stress points are yeah and to your point it’s not the same for everybody no ⁓ some people can kind of quite easily

move above all of the noise and ignore it and maybe getting overwhelmed by something else. Whereas somebody else, may be all of the stuff that’s going on around them or one particular thing which is too noisy that they need to think about and work out how to approach from a different angle or remove entirely.

Ben (25:01)
yeah yeah cuz I and as you kind of said as well like it’s different every day ⁓ for example there are there are days when I’m just completely overwhelmed by just peep being around people all the time which is like my job is very people heavy and

⁓ being in an environment where there’s lots of talking and music and outside noises all that stuff and I’ll go home and the first thing I do is put music on which to some people would be like where you’re just adding to the noise but it’s also it’s then it’s suddenly like that’s the thing I want to listen to when I have control over what I listen to in this moment

James (25:50)
done with purpose as well, which is, I’ve had people say to me in the past, well, if you’re autistic, why do you like going to live gigs? It must be really noisy. it’s like, no, but it’s noise with a purpose. It’s not chaos. Like I hate the grounds and I hate all the getting into the building and getting out of the building and the chaos that comes with that. But as soon as the band comes on, that’s what I’m there for and that’s the purpose. And I’m kind of locked in and differentiating between those two things and not being too, having too much of

broad brush of you have a busy brain therefore you must not like loud music. Or music in general or busy spaces. well no, it’s ⁓ shades of grey. As with everything of how people think and how people behave and what their mindset is, that very little black and white thinking in the world really.

Ben (26:39)
Yeah, absolutely. And guess it all comes back to different, or it can come back to different tools that you can gather along the way in life that help you exist in any environment, regardless of what is happening around you. ⁓ Just things that either…

make you focus in on one thing even if you’re surrounded by people or taking yourself to where there are no people or no or like nothing. ⁓ What I do find really interesting is a lot of people will go to natural spaces because of how quiet it is and I’m just like they’re not actually that quiet.

But like, but there’s no like human noise or there’s no noise which is associated with like humanity. It’s just like nature.

James (27:34)
and nature doesn’t naturally vie for attention. It’s just happening. It’s like, obviously there’s kind of, you know, birds shouting at each other and that sort of thing. And the squirrels going about their day and all the other general stuff that nature does, but it’s not, it’s not there for your attention. And you can either zone in on stuff and a particular bird song that you might be interested in kind of go, what’s that?

Ben (27:37)
No.

James (27:58)
But you don’t have to and there’s no expectation. So you can just kind of sit and be amongst it and just relax.

Ben (28:04)
Yes, exactly. It’s then like, it feels like you are, you’re connecting with something and you’re immersed in something as opposed to being sort of assaulted by it.

James (28:17)
Yes,

yes, yeah, just a kind of onslaught of sounds and experiences and but you don’t have to take part in it.

Ben (28:27)
Yeah, exactly.

James (28:29)
What’s a small thing that always makes you smile?

Ben (28:36)
I’m very fortunate in that I live more rorally in Suffolk and I live in a very peaceful little corner of this county and I wake up to so much bird song every morning and it’s just an absolute delight ⁓ and if

And actually, this kind of leads on from what we were just saying. If I ever do feel really like stressed and overwhelmed and I’m at home, then I know I can just sort of sit and like just listen to the natural environment around me. And I’m just like, yes, this is great. I am surrounded by loveliness. yeah, it’s just like.

being sort of embraced in a very soft gentle kind of way and I love it.

James (29:32)
again with no expectations from what you’re amongst at that time is just that you can just sit and be with it.

Ben (29:39)
Yeah, exactly that.

I mean, I’m very sort of ⁓ drawn to sound and completely obsessed with sound and like the lack of. So I think if anything is going to make me is going to shift my brain into like a positive space, it’s going to be something more like audio based. ⁓

Yeah, because it just, for me, just has that kind of power to like instantly transform something. ⁓ And yeah, so I always look to that to make me like feel good, I guess.

James (30:22)
I think.

Like a really good example of how sound or music can really change a mood is when you when I’m doom-scrolling on Instagram and They’ve attached a different soundtrack to a video I mean a good example is that there’s a sequence from the Matilda movie where the kids dancing through the halls and someone put Rob Zombie’s Dracula over the top of it and Just changing you can vary you can apply a similar sort of thing to changing an environment you’re in

and perhaps feeling very overwhelmed by and having the opportunity to either step out of that and go somewhere where there is it’s a more calming audio space or just sticking some headphones in and changing the sensation of the space that you’re in by having a piece of music that is really familiar to you.

Ben (31:12)
Yeah, absolutely. It’s just… I don’t know, it’s almost like a blanket. It’s just like an audio version of a blanket. You can just immerse yourself in it and just find comfort or a shift of some sort, like within that moment. And it’s such a simple thing.

and I think it’s something which can be very easily overlooked by people. But again, I think it’s one of those things, like with lots of things in life, when you become aware of something that makes you feel good, and then you actively engage with it, then you’re just like, yeah, this works.

James (31:56)
And yeah, having the conscious thought, I suppose, that that’s a comforting thing and I can have it within reach, which for all of the bad things that mobile technology can bring, along with all the distractions, having that sort of stuff in reach, whether it’s a shortcut on your phone or the top of your playlist or two clicks away, like you’re saying with the music that you used to go to, it can be…

a little bit of a safety net as well. It’s a blanket and a safety net. You land and then you immediately get snuggled. is really rejuvenating sometimes.

Ben (32:34)
Yeah, he really is.

James (32:35)
If you had a free day with no plans, how would you spend it?

Ben (32:39)
I would go into a woodland and lie on the ground and make sure I had loads of snacks and and sketchbooks and my trusty pencil case which is completely falling apart but which I keep together with hairbands

and ⁓ I would just see what happens. That is like the happiest, most connected environment for me. ⁓ Yeah, because it gives me options of doing things and like reflecting or doodling or just being on my own terms.

and yeah it’s beautiful yeah just

James (33:38)
No expectations.

Ben (33:44)
Just like, in those situations, I then just get whatever I need in that moment, regardless of how aware of what I need, I then get. Because I’ve given myself the opportunity to, for whatever that needs to happen, to happen.

James (34:08)
and allowing it to happen.

Ben (34:10)
Yeah, and trying, yeah, trying not to stop myself from having from it happening.

James (34:19)
And what’s something that makes you lose track of time other than spending a day in the forest with kind of everything to hand around you and losing that time and allowing that nothingness to take place?

Ben (34:34)
⁓ creating like arty stuff, like painting and yeah just making things. I, a lot of the arty stuff I do is like a combo of painting and collage and drawing and, and…

there’s always these ebbs and flows of having to wait for something to dry but then I’ll do something else and so that I completely lose track of anything then ⁓ in a very wonderful… yeah, in very wonderful way.

James (35:16)
And do you think your ⁓ attraction to mixed media art dovetails nicely into how your thought processes work? And that you don’t like to be stuck into one style and you like to approach things with whatever you’re feeling at that time and that can be across different styles of art?

Ben (35:37)
Yeah for sure. Yeah because for the most part when I’m like making something it’s quite sort of spontaneous and sporadic and quite messy and but even within that there’s lots of different sort of I guess sensations to it because if I’m dealing with paint it’s all like soft and flowy but if I’m doing collagey stuff then I will literally rip up bits of paper and half of it will go on the floor and then I’ll pick it up and screw it up

and then stick it down and paint over the top of it and all this kind of stuff and then if I’m then sort of drawing on top of that it’s very it tends to be more like detailed and very very focused and I think like going between those different states

is pretty much like my brain ⁓ just on a piece of paper or whatever I’m working on. It’s always going between all those different kind of states of being.

James (36:37)
and feeling kind of comfortable. Not necessarily knowing when to change state, but you just naturally do.

Ben (36:45)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think as well, because I’m sort of losing that sense of time and space whenever I’m creating something, it’s only afterwards when I realise how beneficial it is to me that I’ve actually created something in terms of there will either be something

that I then understand about me or my life or an experience that I’ve had or it’ll be like another puzzle piece into understanding like a bigger situation or a bigger like facet of my being and sometimes again going back to me processing things slowly sometimes it’ll be like a week later and I’ll be like I’ll still be questioning like…

why did I paint this? And then suddenly it’ll be like, ⁓ trauma. No. ⁓ But something will just click and then I’ll just be like, ⁓ well that looks like that. Or like in my brain, I’ll be like, that feels like how that felt the other day. Or I can link this.

this drawing to that feeling I had when I was this age or this other piece of artwork and then it all kind of jumbles together in a way where it actually creates a dialogue which I can then understand. It’s like this… again I think this sort of links to like how I create stuff. I often find it has to fall into the world of abstraction before I can then understand it. ⁓

because I think I then, if I’ve created something…

and if I’ve gone through that process of abstraction I then have to think more intently about what it is and why I’m doing it and then that’s where my understanding comes through. So yeah, it’s a bit of a… I’m taking the scenic route to understanding but it makes sense to me. It works! It does work.

James (39:05)
and it works.

What’s the best bit of advice you’ve ever been given?

Ben (39:13)
best bit of advice.

is I have two I have two two chunks of knowledge ⁓ one is being learning how to be aware of the opportunities that you’re being given in life and being open to them because for me

James (39:22)
Two chunks is allowed.

Ben (39:42)
I’ve had lots of different experiences in my time on this earth and that has been, they’ve all been really beneficial to me for many different reasons but if I wasn’t open to the idea of doing something different then I wouldn’t have done half of those things.

learning how to just be like, and like not, I don’t mean it in the context of just saying, saying like yes to everything, because that’s, that can be dangerous and burnout central and ⁓ you can go down lots of different roads which are not beneficial to you, which, hello, speaking from experience, but there’s, there’s like an art to, there’s an art to opportunity and like,

being offered something or having access to something and then being able to just take a step back from it and being like, I’m open to this, but is this for me? Where could this lead? Is this something I think I would enjoy? ⁓ And then if it feels right to pursue it, yeah.

the other really wonderful piece of advice I was given a long time ago was just recognising that you’re on your own path and that you’re…

your journey in life doesn’t have to look like anyone else’s. And even though that can be quite intimidating sometimes, and because you don’t necessarily have people to relate to, and people to compare experiences to, like this, you can gain so much joy and solace knowing that your path is yours alone, and that…

My life doesn’t have to look the same as everyone else’s and I can shape it to be relevant to who I am and where I’m going in life and it actually doesn’t stop you from connecting with anyone else. It just means that you connect in a different way.

James (42:00)
Yeah, and I think on both those points, think one of the really important bits that going back to what we talking about earlier was slowing down and creating the space to find those opportunities or those things that are going to help you on your own path to do what you want to do and what makes you happy as well.

Ben (42:23)
Yeah, yeah exactly. And it’s these things take time and I think the more you learn about yourself the more you become comfortable with the idea of yourself and your own pathway. Both where you have been already and where you could be going. And like it all starts with you know that awareness and like reflecting on

what has happened in life already. ⁓ But once you kind of then do become aware of where you are and what’s happening, you then find it’s quite easy to not necessarily take full control of it, but have more influence over what it looks like.

James (43:13)
and some more awareness around what it could be as well.

Ben (43:16)
Yeah exactly and

yeah I think a lot of us are striving for that ⁓ but we don’t necessarily know how to get there.

James (43:28)
What’s something you’re excited to learn or try in the future?

Ben (43:31)
I am, I’m, well I’m trying to be excited about where I, where my life is heading because because there is, there is a big shift happening within me at the moment and I’ve become so aware of it and in some cases the need for certain things to change and a need for

for like diving deeper and learning more about myself that I know that there are positive things to come out of that and experience tells me that even though it’s quite tricky and can be quite conflicting like the actual process of it yeah I know that there’s lots of good to come out of it so so I am excited about

where I’m gonna be in like a year’s time and ⁓ because I think as well throughout that process I will naturally have just then tried lots of different things and met lots of different people and yeah it could I think it could open up this whole new sort of section of of who I am and

and where I’m going in life which I don’t necessarily think I’ve had access to before now. So that’s pretty cool.

James (45:08)
That’s pretty exciting. is kind of big change can be pretty scary at times, but it’s finding what works within those times and learning or understanding how to adapt and find those opportunities as well.

Ben (45:27)
Yeah exactly, because I think change is always, there’s always an element of change which is uncomfortable but the amount of comfort you can then gain from that is potentially like life-changing and at the very least just very welcome.

James (45:44)
What’s one thing you’d like listeners to take away from this conversation?

Ben (45:47)
that. ⁓

in

⁓ in a weird way, like, all of our differences is actually the thing that connects us. And even though sometimes we think of our own lives as being very separate from those of others, there are always these, like, of similarity which almost act as bridges.

between us and other people and

I don’t… I guess what I’m saying is I don’t want people to be afraid of the things that make them stand out. Because…

One, it just makes people the beautiful things that they are.

It just means that…

you are going through life in the way that was always intended for you to. ⁓ And I think that’s one of the most beautiful things that we can do is just try and try and live, try and navigate this kind of ridiculous bonkers, mad existence, but in a way which is like as true as to ourselves as we can possibly be. ⁓

But yeah, but know that we don’t have to be completely alone in that.

James (47:24)
That’s awesome. Thank you, Ben. And what’s next for you?

Ben (47:26)
thanks very much

what’s next for me

I’m just gonna intentionally bumble around in my silly little ways that I do, trying to figure out more about life and myself. Um… I’m…

working on lots of sort of creative projects at the moment which I’m trying to sort of, yeah, fulfill and make real and ⁓ just be, just connect with more people and just kind of carry on with life in a way that is intentional and doesn’t… ⁓

restrict me from being who I am.

James (48:26)
Bumbling with intent is something I’m going to take away from this. ⁓ Thanks Ben. Been awesome to chat to you.

Ben (48:31)
Thank you so much!