Kasey Brown

James (00:05)
Welcome to Big Bad Beautiful Brains. I’m James. Since I was diagnosed at the age of 45 with autism and ADHD, I’ve been on a journey not only to discover how my brain works and how to look after myself, but also about other people’s brains and how they look after theirs.

I’ll be speaking to people from all different backgrounds, all different ages, and all different experiences to understand how they think and how their big bad beautiful brains work.

James (00:35)
Hello again everyone, hope you’re doing well. And things are fine and dandy with you. This week on the latest episode of Big Bad Beautiful Brains, I’m talking to Kasey Brown. Kasey is an author originally from Hertfordshire and now settled in Suffolk.

She was diagnosed with ADHD in her late 20s and her neurodivergence is woven into her perspective and writing.

Her debut explores themes of abuse, grief, trauma, alcoholism, and neurodivergence, offering an honest look at some of life’s hardest experiences. Really enjoyed my ⁓ chat with Kasey. ⁓ We talked for a fair while kind of before and after the recording as well, and they were kind of really great in-depth conversations.

And it was really good to learn from her some of the ways that she has coping mechanisms and other ways that she kind of uses her way of communicating with people and her way of interacting with people to kind of bring some joy into how she works with them, whether she’s working at the local bottle shop or whether she’s interacting with people when talking about her book, kind of using her neurodivergence as a way to think on her feet, be reactive and find ways that

might surprise and delight people. So I hope you enjoyed this week’s episode and here’s our chat with Kasey.

James (01:59)
Kasey, hi. Hi. How are you? Good, how are you? Good, I’m not too bad at all, thank you. Thanks for coming to my little studio and having a chat with me. You’re welcome.

Kasey (02:01)
Very good, thank you.

It’s nice

in here, there’s lots of things to look at.

James (02:10)
I know, it’s maybe my third brain, is where everything else spills out, where I can’t find a home for it and it usually ends up on the shelves behind you, which is a fantastic collection of absolute chaos. All of things. All of the things. All of the things. Yeah, nice. So let’s have a chat and we’ll ask you the questions that I ask guests every week and we’ll see what comes out of your brain. Cool. Okay, so what’s a song or a sound that’s been stuck in your head recently?

Kasey (02:24)
of the thing.

⁓ So, I mean, what’s been stuck in my head probably for about 20 years is that song, I think it’s called Freed from Desire. Okay. And I probably sing that.

James (02:52)
I’m not going to sing it because I’m a terrible singer, but is that like the dance track? Yeah. ⁓

Kasey (02:57)
Yeah, ⁓

I think I sing that about 40 times a day. ⁓ So that’s the one that’s very much prevalent.

James (03:06)
That’s a well embedded earworm. ⁓ Has there ever been anything that you think is going to run to the risk of replacing it or is that kind of so in there that that’s your kind of ⁓ almost like your it’s almost like a filler word but for when you’re maybe concentrating or something or you’re excited about something or nervous about something that that song comes out by way of kind of communicating how you’re feeling.

Kasey (03:08)
in there. don’t think that will ever ever go.

Yeah, so every now and then, and I have no idea why it’s these two songs, but Vienná by Billy Joel will sort of take place. But that will only be for maybe a day. It will swoop back in,

James (03:46)
Okay.

free from desire, all kind of flooding back.

Okay,

that’s I mean, that’s a couple of other guests I’ve had. One had machinery noises that was kind of stuck in the head because their office was just over the way and that was the kind of thing that was stuck in their head. And other ones would kind of change now and again and be there. Two week info dump. And I think it’s really interesting how the brain can hook onto something and use it as a kind of like an anchor really to kind of come back to and find familiarity. Awesome. Okay. I’m not going to I know the song is now in my head, so I’m going to spend the rest

of this podcast kind of humming it in my head and trying desperately not to let it come out because no one needs to hear my singing. Okay what’s something you’ve been curious about lately?

Kasey (04:35)
⁓ everything, all of the things. ⁓ I think probably at the moment the number one thing, ⁓ I’ve just watched Staircase on Netflix. Okay. So we’re going the morbid route a bit, but have you seen that?

James (04:53)
That’s the one about that. That’s the kind of true true life documentary. Yeah, but the guy who did or didn’t push his wife down the stairs. That’s one I know the one you mean

Kasey (05:02)
And I finished that and then I obviously went on Google and started looking at all of the things and all of the theories. And there’s a theory about it’s called the owl theory, where actually she wasn’t pushed down the stairs. She was attacked by an owl and things that they left out of the documentary, which spoiler alert. But there were feathers and ⁓ like bits of a ⁓ bird of praise talons in her her scalp.

So it was very much like she had been attacked by a bird. my god. So yeah, I’ve been looking into that.

James (05:39)
I’m

exactly the same with TV shows. I’m currently, ⁓ penultimate episode of Alien Earth. But then I have to watch the episode a couple of times, because the first time I’m probably not paying attention. And then after that, I will then go to like heavy spoilers or screen crush on YouTube and then work out kind of what they spotted and the bits that I maybe missed or the kind of connections to the wider universe. And it is like, I can’t.

If I enjoy something, that’s a really good sign of, that’s a really good indicator of how much I enjoyed it because I want to go out and find more and kind of deep dive a little bit further than perhaps the Netflix show or whatever platform is on has given me. can be kind of, you have to keep it in check because you will kind of suddenly become an expert on owl attacks.

Kasey (06:32)
Yeah, I think I’m about maybe 80 % of the way there. I feel ⁓ like people could come to me and I could help them solve cases now.

Exactly, maybe that’ll be the ⁓ side hustle.

James (06:44)
I like it. it. If you had a way to describe, if you had three words, if you were given three, say three words to describe how your brain works, what three words would you use?

Kasey (06:53)
I would say all of it. by all of it, mean all of it all the time, constantly. It’s just a scramble up there most of the time, most of the days. There are very few things that I can do that allow me to sort of function on a very even keel. Luckily,

My job is one of them. First job really that I’ve ever been able to just be able to do my job and I love it and it’s just a nice normal experience rather than the chaos. So I’m very, very thankful for my job.

James (07:38)
Okay, yeah, all of it’s an interesting one is I think with ⁓ particularly busy minds is and the people that kind of don’t have busy minds, it’s very hard to quite how much of an information fire hose your brain can be. And I don’t know a way.

They’ve kind of had simulators for people to without neurodivergence to kind of immerse themselves in but it’s actually just kind of lots of people talking at once and Like a walk around a shopping center with a very loud Entertainment machine in the corner, but that doesn’t still doesn’t really sum up quite how loud it can be and it’s not just voices, it’s not just Thoughts about things that happened that are gonna happen. It’s kind of ⁓

everything at once and all at the same volume.

Kasey (08:34)
Or

just all of it.

James (08:36)
All of it. So all of it is like, love that one. That’s a fantastic way to describe it because it is just kind of like everything is on and filtering out what’s ⁓ irrelevant or unimportant at that time compared to what might be important at that time compared to just stopping and switching off is kind of very hard. It can be fantastic if you’re…

creatively minded or writing or creating music or art or problem solving to have that skill set. But it’d be nice to be able to kind of, know, when you put your pen down that the thinking stops as well.

Kasey (09:12)
That would be lovely, yeah. Not quite realistic. no, It would be lovely.

James (09:17)
It’s learning how to work with that slightly chaotic tool and make the most of it and then look after yourself when it’s not being quite as ⁓ useful.

Kasey (09:31)
the adapting

to the noise is important but tricky.

James (09:37)
Absolutely, absolutely. So what’s something you’re still figuring out amongst all of it?

Kasey (09:43)
I would say what I think I’ve definitely got better at it. But I would say the masking side of things. When to mask, when not to mask. What my masking actually looks like. I was diagnosed with ADHD six years ago. So I was, how old was I? 20.

James (09:54)
Okay.

Kasey (10:12)
think I was 26-ish. And so I’ve gone 26 years of trying to adapt and trying to think what on earth is going on and learning these masking behaviors, but not knowing that it was masking. Now I’m almost trying to unpick 26 years worth of…

I know, blanket let’s say that I’ve threaded a lot. Many, many blankets. ⁓ And so yeah, it’s difficult and there’s definitely people that I know I don’t ever need to mask around, but it’s finding that balance I think. sometimes I’m at work for 12 hours.

James (10:39)
many blanks.

Mm-hmm.

Kasey (11:01)
and that’s 12 hours of masking. And then by the time I’m home, the blanket is pushed to one side and I’m just full on. ⁓ So yeah, it’s definitely interesting to see the night time, like once I’m home, how it all comes out, because I don’t even realise I’m masking. But there is a definite differentiation between when I’m at work and when I’m at home for sure.

James (11:27)
And it’s the hard thing about ⁓ masking and having to unravel it all in particular is kind of A, finding the real you. And sometimes it is allowing yourself to, when it feels like you’ve had enough of doing the masking, of just going like, I’m gonna stop because it’s unhealthy and it’s actually causing me more harm than not masking. And it’s just trying to find that.

space to pause and check in with yourself. That can sometimes be the hard thing to start with. Starting to unpick is kind of, there’s the real me under all of these blankets somewhere, but I need to stop and think about how that works and where I am actually really comfortable with people or in the workplace or just socializing. ⁓

What’s something about everyday life that’s easy for you, but hard for others, or the other way around?

Kasey (12:27)
I think what’s easy for me, and I’ve always kind of recognized this, is that I can be given a list of 100 things and I’m on it. I will get those 100 things done in a day. If I’m given a list of two things, however, then I am standstill. And I think that’s because my brain works best with the chaos because it’s always on the go.

James (12:53)
The

sense of urgency kind of makes things happen.

Kasey (12:56)
So

with my job, for example, I’m very busy. I run the unit, I do the socials, I do the staff stuff, I train them, I do stock and everything. The socials aspect is almost like a job by itself, but it’s never overwhelming. But if I have a quiet day,

where let’s say, I say a quiet day, it’s a busy day so all I do is serve people, that can be sometimes a little bit of a struggle because I’m only doing one thing. ⁓ So yeah, the ability I think to handle and juggle lots of things at once is just nothing.

James (13:43)
Yeah. And do you find it, if someone says to you, okay, here’s a list of tasks, but, you know, get around to it when you, when you feel like it. Do you find that impossible to know where to start because you have that, that sense of urgency is taken away and you’ve kind of given the sense of the busyness and the need to get something done because there’s no deadline. Just think you don’t know where to kind of, you feel kind of directionless.

Kasey (14:12)
I I guess who is asking me to do the things. ⁓ But with that, the get round to it when you can. If it’s a long list, that’s almost like a challenge then. So then it becomes quicker. ⁓ Maybe it’s my need for praise, I don’t know. so, okay, I’ve got 200 things here to do. Okay, give me an hour. ⁓ But yeah, maybe.

James (14:29)
Okay.

Kasey (14:42)
Maybe it is dependent on the person, yeah, I think I would say that as more of a challenge than a issue.

James (14:52)
Okay, interesting. ⁓ Have you found any approaches that make the world better for you?

Kasey (14:58)
I think trust is a huge, a huge one. ⁓

and not necessarily processes, but just being allowed to be a person. ⁓ I think sometimes when you say that you’ve got ADHD, you say that you’ve got autism, or know, with some people both, you know, the whole plethora of things that you can say. ⁓

There is a lot of judgment out there still. ⁓ Thankfully, with the current job that I’m in, is just nothing. It’s just like I’ve said, my name’s Kasey. There’s just no judgment at all. I have had jobs in the past where there has been a horrible, horrible amount of judgment. ⁓ So just being able to be trusted to do a job.

is I think the best process that any workplace, any people, any, you know, in a relationship, just being trusted that you are just a normal functioning human that may be a little bit different every now and then is the best way to sort of go about it.

James (16:17)
Yeah, think it’s really powerful for employers to be employers or social groups or workplaces or anywhere really to be.

aware of neurodiversity, but not pigeonhole it and try and create an inclusive environment for everybody rather than kind of go, okay, well, this is the strategy for people with ADHD and here’s the strategy for people with autism and here’s the strategy for everybody else or the worst of scenarios of calling it for the normal people who work here. But actually to create an environment, like you say, where people just feel comfortable being themselves and to be a trustworthy

valued member of the workforce. ⁓ Everything else after that is kind of secondary but if you can try and create an environment for people which is welcoming, adaptive ⁓ and gives people the space they need to do what they need to do. ⁓ I think it’s super powerful.

Kasey (17:15)
Yeah, definitely. I think sort of my experience in workplaces with people with ADHD and autism and whatever ⁓ is that actually because of the stigma and the judgment that we face, I feel like I actually have to work harder. So I may be sometimes a better employee than potentially other people. ⁓ So that I think is…

important to acknowledge as well is that actually I’ve always felt going into jobs that I’ve got something that I really, really need to prove. But being able to be given the freedom of a non-judgmental workplace has even probably tripled that because I now know that I’m in a safe space so I can do even more. So it really does

It’s got such benefits for me, but for the workplace as well.

James (18:17)
Absolutely, absolutely. What’s a small thing that always makes you smile?

Kasey (18:23)
Bit random, but my cat. Well, I say my cat, he’s my other half’s cat, but he is mine really, he’s my baby. He’s just, I think I’ve always had like a real love for animals. Growing up at one point, the most pets that we had was 42. Yeah, so I’ve always been around animals.

James (18:25)
Okay.

Wow.

So is that mostly cats or whole kind of like menagerie?

Kasey (18:50)
a

bit of everything. We had a couple of dogs, a of cats, a couple of birds, ferrets, guinea pigs, rabbits, but like fish. We only had five fish though, so they didn’t really add too much to it. But yeah, there was, there was a lot happening. Um, so yeah, I’ve always found a lot of comfort and peace, I think, just being around animals. I think it’s probably that non-judgmental thing again.

James (19:17)
Yeah, and just the needs to not feel like you need to speak, think, as well as a big thing, is just kind of sitting in silence in a space and not feeling like there needs to be dialogue and no judgment and that sort of thing. it’s kind of the…

I mean, my two dogs who gave you a ridiculous welcome at the window when you got here, when they’re not leaping about all over the place are just fantastic to have around. they are, ⁓ they do it for food probably, but they are really loving.

of who just kind of want to be with you. And it’s just being with somebody or being in the space of someone who just wants that, it can be really freeing. And sometimes kind of animals can be the best at doing that. ⁓ Less so with birds and reptiles, I’ve found, but. Birds? I’ve never had a pet bird, so I’ve probably never experienced it, but. ⁓

Kasey (20:09)
no, birds, I love birds.

I a

few different pet birds, the best one, I would say, was ⁓ we had an African grey parrot. Okay. And a potty mouth. was absolutely ridiculous. Taught by my mum. ⁓

But yeah, no, she was really loving, very picky over who she wanted to love. But once she accepted you, it was like a real, almost like an award that you won. But no, I used to sit in the mornings with her and have a cup of tea. She’d have a cup of tea out of her egg cup, not like a full cup of tea. But yeah, it was a real like, you can definitely bond with birds, I would say, yeah.

James (20:57)
Interesting. Yeah, never, I grew up around cats and then became allergic to cats. So cats aren’t really the option. And then got dogs and dogs are kind of on a different level, I find. ⁓ Just kind of, guess how close they want to be to you can sometimes feel a little overbearing compared to cats who are kind of just like sometimes appear to tolerate you rather than want to be around you. But yeah, never, never, never had a dynamic with a bird. So it’s maybe I’ll get something down here that can.

Kasey (21:27)
Give it a go. Simulate that.

James (21:28)
I don’t know if I can be trusted to look after a bird though, especially with two lab crosses around trying to eat everything. It’s probably not the greatest environment. ⁓ If you had a free day with no plans at all, how would you spend it?

Kasey (21:37)
No, maybe not.

See, I know what I would like to say, which would be like a day in nature and finding like a forest and just walking around all day. But the reality would probably just literally do nothing. ⁓ day in front of the TV, ⁓ of brain rot stuff, scrolling through the phone, just doing absolutely nothing. Sometimes I feel like that really helps me ⁓

James (21:47)
Okay.

Kasey (22:14)
process the day or the week that’s gone by and just to sort of almost even out and sort of be okay again. can… I can get burnt out very quickly. So yeah, just a day of nothing sometimes is just what I need.

James (22:24)
and

⁓ I’ve found that there’s more nothingness to be had, especially with kind of ADHD minds and my autism pulling me in different directions as well, is that there’s more of nothing to be had and kind of finding those gaps can be really powerful at sometimes. sometimes like a down day of nothingness is great and kind of, know, perhaps like favorite TV show or like a rewatch of something or… ⁓

doing a puzzle or something like that, then kind of talking to other people doing this and talking to other people kind of in a wider network is their ways of kind of finding more of nothingness and finding those extra gaps and kind of using.

techniques that they’ve learned over the years to increase those is this kind of find more nothing. Yeah. And really kind of wallow around in those spaces because they’re really powerful because if you can find those moments of nothing where your brain can stop, it’s really regenerative and kind of re-energizing to just bring balance back. Yeah. And especially kind of in an age where

everything’s trying to advertise to you. Someone’s trying to get engagement from you in some way, shape or form, whether it’s on the rectangle of doom that we all hold in our hands or whether it’s just walking down the road and there’s kind of a massive bright LCD billboard sign or something like that or bus advertising. It’s constant noise and it’s trying and despite what’s going on in your head and it’s trying to find those gaps and trying to kind of unearth those things that are really powerful.

Kasey (24:15)
Yeah,

yeah, I feel the most comfortable I feel probably ever is when I’m quote unquote being lazy, but it’s that finding the quiet, the nothingness. I do a lot of yoga and meditation as well now, which I’ve got into sort of over maybe the last year or so properly. ⁓ And just that, just having that nothingness.

⁓ is fantastic and I had my first sound bath about a year ago. Okay. And you just you literally just lay there.

James (24:54)
So is that in one of those ⁓ isolation baths where they shut the door and it’s kind of…

Kasey (25:02)
No, ⁓ so I had, I think you can have some like that, but I had mine at a local company called Yoga-Bility, which is in Ipswich, and they’re fantastic. And they’ve got a little studio, so you go in and they have sort of like ⁓ the sound bowls and gongs and things like that. So you literally just lay there and all you hear.

is these sound bowls and stuff. But it’s so relaxing. And I never thought that my brain would ever be able to shut off properly. And I would say I’m probably about 99 % there in a sound bath. It’s amazing. It’s incredible. Yeah.

James (25:28)
Okay.

is a similar experience, not through sound, but creating those.

triggering moments, good triggering not bad triggering moments, is I had hypnotherapy for a while and I found it really useful because it was about kind of resetting a lot of my thought processes and my anxiety and one of the things he taught me was while I was kind of being hypnotized which was awkwardly quick me being kind of gung-ho about it going in going haha you can’t hypnotize me and then 15 seconds later I’m out. You’re gone. I’m gone.

One of things he taught me, which I think is a similar thing to around like the prayer bowls and having a grounding noise, is he taught me just to pinch my finger and my thumb and my next finger together if I was feeling anxious or overwhelmed. It doesn’t get rid of it, but it just resets me. And I think things like with yoga, meditation and that sort of thing, it’s a similar thing. There’s a process and you can, the more…

you get used to the process or that sound that starts the process, the more you can rely on it to kind of re-send to yourself. Which I think is kind of, it’s useful for everybody to a certain extent, but with incredibly busy minds, is just having that thing to kind of just remind you to focus on something rather than everything.

Kasey (27:13)
Yeah,

just being able to take a moment is very underlooked, I think, for people on the norm side of things.

James (27:23)
Yeah

and just kind of to step out of the world in any way shape or form is just kind of super super useful. There’s one ⁓

track that I use as like an example of kind of where to find the pauses. There’s a song by Radiohead called How to Disappear Completely. And there’s a bit in it where the orchestra builds and builds and builds and builds. And it’s a really good kind of metaphor for how busy my brain can get sometimes and how much is going on and everything’s trying to pull in different directions. And the song is actually about dealing with anxiety and overwhelm. And there’s a bit in the song where everything suddenly stops and it just plays a single note. And that’s the space I want to live in is the

I know that there’s all this noise out there and I know that there’s a lot of things that I can’t do to switch that off, but I know that I can live in the space after it where that gap is. And just having those ⁓ routines where it can be a sound or it can be an action or it can just be a gesture that re-sends you, I think is just kind of massively powerful.

Kasey (28:26)
Yeah,

it’s almost like finding a safety, isn’t it? Yeah, yeah.

James (28:29)
Yeah, it’s like your panic room.

But you can do it anywhere and you can have it just having ⁓ the, maybe have the sound on your phone or somewhere that you can easily go to where you can just pop your headphones in and just have that sound or that familiarity where you can just reground yourself a little bit and without the overwhelm just building up and ignoring it.

and going it’ll be fine, it’ll be fine, it’ll be fine. It’s actually no, just stop and pause and take a moment.

Okay.

This is where I forgot where it was.

What’s something that makes you lose track of time?

Kasey (29:07)
I would say probably the thing that makes me lose track of time most is being around family. I find when I’m around family I’m very in the moment.

usually quite a crazy moment, but still in the moment and it’s just, yeah, time just, it absolutely disappears. ⁓ And I think that probably is because there is, talking about safety, there is that sense of safety there. I’m around people who know what I’m like, know my ways, know my masks and everything like that. And that means therefore there is no need for a mask. ⁓

So I guess it’s that freedom to just be. ⁓ And yeah, I do definitely find myself five minutes, you know, well, sorry, an hour can feel like five minutes. ⁓ Yeah, I think when I’m, it’s probably people maybe in a wider look at it. ⁓

talking to people and that connection level.

James (30:25)
Yeah,

not just small talk, actual kind of meaning.

Kasey (30:28)
No,

yeah, I can’t deal with small talk. I wanna know everything. wanna know the, what’s your traumas? I wanna know everything. ⁓ And that’s, mean, I guess that’s why I wrote the book, but ⁓ yeah, I wanna know about people, like really about people, not the weather, no, I can’t stand that.

James (30:49)
not the weather. Yeah,

that’s why I cut my hair at home because I can’t tolerate being a prisoner of small talk. And it is, I find it fascinating how many people are powered by small talk and enjoy that kind of.

very thin veneer of conversation as opposed to actually wanting to get to know someone. And also kind of trying to find meaningful connection rather than the small talk. And sometimes you can find a meaningful connection and then realize that person is not kind of your cup of tea. But at least you’ve found, you’ve kind of gone out and both sought that ⁓ mindset. I think you can, if you meet people with a similar kind of curiosity.

and desire to kind of actually know people, you can chat to people like that for absolutely ages. And as like you say, you can lose, that’s when you can really kind of get into a long conversation and suddenly lose track of time, as opposed to the skin peeling awfulness of the weather and did you watch the game at the weekend? And it’s just horrifying. It’s kind of, yeah, makes me want to go to my safe space.

Kasey (32:09)
Yeah,

yeah, I’m quite lucky in a way with my job. It’s very, you know, I talk to people all day. ⁓ But it’s a lot of small talk.

I do try and steer away from the small talk and get it almost like in a middle space. ⁓ And I’m quite nosy actually. So that kind of helps. I know what every single one of my regulars do for work, how long they’ve been there, what their favourite part of their work is, ⁓ rather than just how do they feel about a rainy day sort of vibe. ⁓ But other customers who come in also are…

intrigued by people and that really is, you know, I’ve actually made some friends, some really good friends from my workplace because we’ve gone past the small talk. ⁓ And that is where the, you know, if you go on a date and you only talk about small talk, you might, I don’t think you’ll probably meet again. So it’s that.

not that I’m dating all my customers, obviously, but it’s going past that annoying bit at the start that I with the real connection.

James (33:28)
That feels like where the mask is. Like the small talk to me just feels like it’s performative and there’s no real kind of, you know, I’ve found myself numerous times in the past that people ask me how I’m doing and I will tell them how I’m doing and the look of sheer horror on their face with like, I just needed fine or good thanks. And it’s like, well, you asked how I was doing so I’m going to tell you. ⁓ But I think that

that sort of genuine connection and that sort of curiosity can actually help businesses do better. In the sales process or in the customer relations process or in hospitality, of people just being not performative and genuinely intrigued about how people are doing and how they can make their experience better is kind of…

It feels like a no-brainer to a certain extent of we should be getting people like this in, not people who want to kind of do the small talk dance.

Kasey (34:28)
I mean sometimes

when I have a quieter evening at work and there’s maybe one or two couples in and I’ve done everything I need to do, we’ve got board games in work and I’ll just get a board game out and we’ll all play. And I’ve had so many people say to me, don’t get this, like you couldn’t go to a pub.

and like a normal pub and get that you just don’t have, or the barmaid sits down with you and you’re all playing guess who or Scrabble or whatever and it’s that personal touch that I think is really missing from a lot of places.

James (35:04)
Yeah, and

the advent of, ⁓ I use air quotes, AI ⁓ into workplaces, I think is going in the wrong direction from that. It’s that businesses, any sort of business, need to look at where the point of difference is with the human touch and the little things that make a difference. And it can be the smallest of things, like you say, kind of like, right, I’m gonna get a board game out, we’re all gonna play now. ⁓

⁓ It doesn’t need a big marketing plan. It doesn’t need a budget spending on it. It just needs a secondhand board game and the desire to have conversations and feel energized by it.

Okay, so last four questions. I say these are quick fire, but we can expand on them as much as we want. But let’s see how we go. What’s the best advice you’ve ever been given?

Kasey (36:00)
Just fucking get on with it. I think people, so that quote is from my mum. She’s sadly passed away now. But her philosophy of life was just fucking get on with it. Stop moping, moping is not gonna help things. And she was a funeral director.

James (36:03)
Hahaha.

Kasey (36:27)
So that very much helped that side of things. But you do just have to get on with things. You can’t just stop. Especially with, you know, there’s been times where I’ve fallen into depression and stuff like that. my mum’s words is what’s got me out of it. You just have to keep going. ⁓

James (36:54)
Yeah,

and think that again it’s around…

like procrastination, overthinking, catastrophizing, all of that sort of stuff can be the things that get in the way of just fucking get on with it. And it’s not the lack of desire to just fucking get on with it. It can sometimes be my brain is too busy and it gets in the way and the self care part of that and finding the pauses and creating meaningful relationships where people understand you can get a hundred tasks done in a day,

might need a little bit of recovery time after it and the measure of having the right headspace to just fucking get on with it can be really really useful but it is kind of finding those little moments of peace and finding those ways to recover and look after yourself in the process to be ready to just crack on. ⁓

Kasey (37:52)
Yeah, sometimes

it’s difficult to get there, but having those words in the back of my head definitely helped me get there quicker.

James (38:01)
Love it, love it. What’s something you’re excited to learn or try in the future?

Kasey (38:05)
What I really want to learn is how to swim. I can’t swim. ⁓ I did learn when I was a kid and I learnt how to swim on my front, sorry, on my back.

James (38:09)
Okay.

Kasey (38:21)
And then when it came to learning on my front, I just kept like basically drowning. And there was this one time when the instructor just left me for a bit too long and I was convinced that that was it. I was going to die. ⁓ And so I just never, that was it. I was probably eight or nine.

James (38:42)
Okay, so that’s a fairly kind of early traumatic experience to really give you a resistance to not want to go back to it.

Kasey (38:49)
Yeah, and now, you know, if

I go on holiday, ⁓ I don’t even dip my toes into the pool. I can’t. I’ll maybe paddle in the sea, but it just is absolutely petrifying and like walking across a pier. If I can see through the planks and I see the sea, it’s a whole ⁓ situation. So yeah, learning how to swim would be a good one. And then if I do fall in, at least I can swim.

James (38:56)
Okay.

Yeah, absolutely. You can strut down a pill with absolute confidence. Fantastic. What’s one thing you’d like listeners to take away from this conversation?

Kasey (39:22)
Really.

I would like everyone to take away that even on your worst days, it’s just a bad day. There will always, always be good days and you can find a good part even in the bad days as well.

James (39:46)
Absolutely. There’s a ⁓ fantastic, fairly long quote by, I think it was by somebody else, there’s a video of Tom Hanks about this too shall pass. And you can apply that to anything. And even on your worst days, this too shall pass. Even on your best days, this too shall pass. But it will pass. it’s, ⁓ I think it’s a really useful thing to keep in mind that

a lot of the bad things that you feel are going on can sometimes be in your head. And that’s not to say they’re imaginary, but they’re keeping you stuck in your head while as the rest of the world kind of carries on moving. And that kind of does go back to just get the fuck on with it. But it’s also just allowing your brain to sense of forgiveness to a certain extent of kind of that you’re feeling like it. Some awareness that it will

pass and just some learning from how you got to that position and how to protect yourself from it in the future.

Kasey (40:55)
understanding yourself is a big part of it I think and it definitely helps with like I suffer with them the rejection sensitivity side of things as well every day I’m convinced I’m gonna get the sack and actually listening to that and trying to pinpoint okay why do I feel like that it’s come from

past traumatic situation. got nothing to do with the situation that I’m in now. The situation that I’m in now has only ever shown me care, understanding. I’ve got a fantastic boss, so I shouldn’t ever be applying that to this situation. It’s just the trauma that comes.

James (41:36)
up. And it comes from learning and understanding more about yourself that the reason you might be feeling like, the reason your emotion, your sense of overwhelm or your sense of rejection sensitivity and just being a little bit interrogative about it and going I’m feeling like this now and my environment is not my environment that I’m in now that’s making me feel like it.

and just kind of asking yourself what’s causing it. And because sometimes you can be reactive to your mood rather than the space that you’re in. And that can pull you down further rather than kind of let you reflect out of it to a certain extent. Okay, last question. What’s next for you?

Kasey (42:21)
Absolutely, yeah.

Wow, ⁓ so now my book is out. It’s called What Will It Take? ⁓ And it’s a recount of experiences that I’ve gone through in my life. ⁓ It covers all sorts of different topics, but the topic of me having ADHD is in there as well. ⁓

James (42:30)
And what’s the title of your book?

Kasey (42:51)
And so next for me, I mean, I just want to do everything. I want to do absolutely everything. I want to be on the radio. I want to be in newspapers. I want be swimming. I want to be swimming everywhere. That’ll be my mode of transport. just, yeah, I just everything I think is the answer. I just want to do it. Oh, I think that the topics in my book aren’t spoken about enough.

James (42:59)
coming.

Kasey (43:16)
And you know, one thing that I’m 100 % sure that everyone will go through in their life that’s in my book is the topic of grief. Yeah. So therefore, I truly, truly believe every single person needs to read my book. So it’s the case of how do I get my book to everyone, every single person on this planet? So, yeah, that will be the thing. But I think

starting you know locally I want to be in some book shops and maybe on the radio and in newspapers and things like that and then yeah we’ll we’ll see where where we go from there but I think probably in the next six months I’m 100 % I’ll be in Hollywood so I won’t forget you. Yeah absolutely.

James (44:02)
Awesome. Yeah. special. If

you’ve watched an owl kill a lady on top of some stairs, you’ll love this. Awesome. Okay, thumbs up. And where will people be able to find your book?

Kasey (44:11)
Thanks.

⁓ It will be on what it is on Amazon ⁓ And then yeah, like I said, I’ll be trying to push it into Probably local like indie book bookstores first ⁓ And then if you know me I’ll probably have copies. So just flag me down

James (44:36)
Awesome. During a board game at the bottle shop.

you read my book? Yeah. Good sell. Why not? Read it now. Read it in front of me. No pressure. Kasey, thank you so much. Thank you very much. Cheers.

Kasey (44:44)
if you haven’t won.

I take cash as well.