Sophie Giller

James (00:01)
This episode is a special that I’m doing in partnership with the Spill Festival, which is running in Ipswich between the 23rd and the 26th of October.

James (00:09)
Welcome to Big Bad Beautiful Brains. I’m James. Since I was diagnosed at the age of 45 with autism and ADHD, I’ve been on a journey not only to discover how my brain works and how to look after myself, but also about other people’s brains and how they look after theirs.

I’ll be speaking to people from all different backgrounds, all different ages, and all different experiences to understand how they think and how their big bad beautiful brains work.

James (00:38)
This episode, I’m joined by Sophie Giller, an artist whose work moves beautifully between sculpture, textiles, painting and installation.

Her practice is rooted in process, care, and the emotional lives of everyday materials, exploring how things we make keep hold of traces of who we are.

how the things we make and keep hold traces of who we are. Sophie often works autobiographically and intuitively, collecting and responding to materials that carry stories and sentiment.

Lately she’s been creating site specific installations that draw on social and historical context of each space,

making work that as much as it does with her own lived experience. Her work has been shown at the ICA, the Saatchi Gallery, and Standpoint Gallery, featured in the Times, World of Interiors, and Time Out.

and recognised by awards including Bloomberg New Contemporaries and the Gilbert Bayes Award for Sculpture.

James (01:32)
Sophie, hi, how are you?

Sophie (01:34)
Hi, I’m good, thank you. I’m a bit tired from installing last week’s Steal for Spill festival, but I’m good.

James (01:39)
Has it all gone to plan or has has it been a well nothing really ever goes to plan but has it gone as you expected?

Sophie (01:46)
Yeah, no, that’s a good question. think that sometimes when you’re installing, something really scary can go wrong in the sense of like something breaks or something that you thought could go in a specific space in a building can’t. And then that can be really worrying because you can spend hours getting stuck on something like that. And I would say nothing like that happened. So I think that, when your nervous system is already a bit off, when something like that happens, it’s very scary and nothing like that did happen. So I’m going to say that’s good.

James (02:16)
Good to hear. I look forward to your episodes coming out in the next few days in the run up to the Spill Festival which is this week and look forward to kind going around and just kind of seeing what’s going on and what’s happening.

Sophie (02:27)
Thank you, yes please do.

James (02:29)
What’s a song or sound that’s been stuck in your head recently?

Sophie (02:32)
⁓

Yeah, this one’s kind of funny because this is only more of super recent one. I think it’s the Sugar Plum Fairy by Tchaikovsky. And I kept humming it because I was talking to my partner and saying, I was like, I don’t know if I like classical music. that kind of, it’s just in my head. And we couldn’t find it. We couldn’t find the title for it. So I think it became a bit of a, yeah, like an earworm where you can’t find it. And then when I hummed it to my dad, who’s a piano restorer and plays piano, yeah, he knew it straight away.

would say since then it still hasn’t gone out. It’s like my brain hasn’t processed like, no, you’ve found the time.

James (03:07)
Do you have that a lot where you kind of ⁓ a piece of music or clip of audio kind of really gets stuck in your head and you either you kind of want to think that you’re done with it but it really hangs around a lot longer than you’d hoped?

Sophie (03:19)
It’s a good question. I would say it doesn’t always get stuck, but I would say I do get the thing where if it happens and you play it, then that play seems to be the, like, when you listen to it, that seems to sort of help process.

James (03:30)
That’s the release you need. It is a thing and it’s fine and I’ve heard it now and that’s okay. It can go on its way. What’s something you’ve been curious about lately?

Sophie (03:40)
Yeah, I am. So for the project Port to Port, we’ve been looking at loads of amazing sort of maritime crafts and sort of local histories. And then we’ve been doing different art workshops. But I got to do this amazing workshop with someone from the Excelsior Trust, which is this amazing national historic ship that lives in Lowestoft. It’s a fishing smack from 1921 and ⁓ an amazing guy there called Robert Harbord. He did like a rope making workshop with me. And that’s like an endangered. It’s on the national endangered heritage crafts in the country, actually, as well.

And when I did that workshop, I was so like, whoa, the world of like ropes and knots is mad. And ⁓ you sort of learn these amazing things to do with like how if you tie certain knots, say in a few directions, you’re putting the tension on all three places in the same pressure, which is what like a mask needs at the top. Or sometimes like, for instance, in like we’re talking about Ipswich or like smuggling or like histories, there’s amazing knots where you can tie up your horses. And on one side, it’s so tight. But on the other side, you pull it and the whole rope comes

away and you can just get away in two minutes or something. Not two minutes, sorry, faster than that, faster than that. But yeah, so I think that I was really interested in all these kind of ropes and knots and how they kind of literally sort of inform sailing and I was sort of, we’ve made lots of screen prints of these close-ups and there’s this sort crazy big patchwork sail that I’ve been making with Holly Showfield who’s an artist and project manager. So yeah, I would say learning about different sort of nautical crafts, ⁓ yeah, been really interesting.

James (05:08)
If you had to describe how your brain works in three words, what would they be and why?

Sophie (05:14)
I think one of them would definitely be emotion or emotional. ⁓ And I know that’s maybe a weird one because it’s something we feel in our bodies a lot, but I would definitely say that I feel that my brain runs off energy, that those energies, good and bad and all the shades in between. ⁓ I would maybe say observing. ⁓ I feel like I’m someone that definitely just like loves looking at stuff, loves watching stuff and like whether I don’t know whether I’m driving or whether I’m with someone or I feel like there’s lot of almost

like scanning things with sort of details a lot. And then I don’t know if the last one would be… I’m kind of, I’m almost like talking between two. I wonder if one them would almost be a bit inconsistent as in like, I definitely feel quite different a lot. I would say different days that there’s like different amounts of brain space or different amounts of energies for certain things. And sometimes that’s amazing. And sometimes it’s awful because then you don’t want to see anyone or you don’t, I don’t know. It’s up and down.

James (06:12)
And do you just kind of go with the flow with that sort of thing or do you sometimes feel like, ⁓ I wish I could have consistency? Or is the kind of inconsistency a great thing because every day is different and ⁓ it creates a bit more variety in kind of what you do and how you interact with the world?

Sophie (06:34)
Yeah, it’s a good question. think sometimes it’s kind of like a pain because I wish that I could be more sort of even keel day to day or something. But I wonder if that even keelness would come with being a bit more routine or a bit more ⁓ sort of regimented or structured. And I think because I do such different projects and sometimes I’m flipping between paid work that’s different types of paid work and different art projects or different deadlines or commissions sometimes for people, I think because every week does look different. I think maybe it just keeps on.

firing off these like cylinders are just different and I don’t know yeah I think maybe you have to go with that

James (07:11)
What’s something you’re still figuring out?

Sophie (07:14)
Gosh, well that was one of them. That is one of them. in like managing energy levels, definitely. ⁓ Yeah, I think, ⁓ and we talked a little bit about it before, I think maybe also sort of a work-life balance a bit because I have a home studio, so I’m living with my parents and we have like kind of, it’s like we rent like this crazy big old farmhouse and then there’s all these barns and I kind of jump between working in the barns or a room in the house and I would say that that’s really bad for, yeah, the work-life balance.

even the barn actually, even stepping out, like exiting the building really changes it to the one in the home. So the one in the home is like, become a storage unit and I’m like, yeah, sort of working the barn. So maybe, yeah, maybe work life balance and finding it hard to switch off and finding it hard to, yeah, find those kinds of rhythms that might actually lead to a bit more of a karma life.

James (08:05)
You

What’s something about everyday life that’s easy for you, but hard for others, all the other way around?

Sophie (08:14)
Yeah, ⁓ I think that something that could be easy is I feel like I always feel really driven to do stuff, not always the same thing, as in like, ⁓ whether that’s, I think I definitely get excited about new challenges. I don’t know if excited is the right word. I think it’s more of an addiction.

James (08:33)
kind of

the need for novelty or just kind of change

Sophie (08:37)
Yeah, I think the change, I think the want for change or maybe a restlessness. It’s almost like I think sometimes when I when I’m sort of finding things a bit hectic in the studio, I sometimes think, why did I choose to do everything like multimedia all the time? Why did I choose to use all these different mediums at once? I don’t know what I’m doing. But I also think that spinning of those mediums or plates or wanting to challenge myself with sort of learning new things like the different types of crafts, different ways of making things. I think that drive is very sort of like deeply there.

And it’s, yeah, I think it’s that sort of drive to learn and to want to know more and to make more actually in response, as in like, because the making for me is so pivotal to like my art practices. And like, that’s the bit that I think I get the most joy from is that kind of those moments in the studio where you’re just sort of making and making. So, yeah, I definitely think a lot about how sort of try to like organize the madness of life, you know, to allow that making to happen. sometimes.

James (09:33)
Make the room for it.

Sophie (09:35)
Yeah, and then sometimes you’re making other aspects of your life so busy or chaotic to be able to then seal off those moments so you get that making. ⁓ yeah, but I would say I generally do still find balancing that like I definitely don’t feel like I do that well.

James (09:49)
Have you found any approaches that make the world work better for you?

Sophie (09:53)
⁓ I think that, and actually it’s funny because these might be really sort of like classic self-care things as in that might sound cheesy, but I exercise and I do therapy and have been doing that for like three years so I would say those two things I think definitely keep me sane.

James (10:11)
Yeah, I think for me, I was always kind of, you know, completely anti-gym and didn’t ever really see the kind of huge benefit in it until kind of I started getting my head together a bit better last year and then suddenly realized actually keeping fit is actually a really good thing to help the brain. Why didn’t I do that sooner?

The dopamine things are happening, it’s really strange. ⁓ yeah, just the, and kind of talking therapies and all of that sort of thing. It’s different for everybody, but there is a form of exercise, both kind of mental and physical, that people can find and what works for them. it’s not, or it doesn’t always necessarily mean the gym, can be getting out into nature and being in the countryside and that sort of thing. Or ⁓ rather than having a professional therapist, it’s just being more open with your friends and talking to them. But those things,

and whatever form they take can be really beneficial for most people.

Sophie (11:08)
Definitely. Yeah, no, no, I totally agree and like how you say how it’s so different for each person like that kind of that kind of meditative or that empty time Yeah, like for someone or like for me recently I’ve been yeah running a lot and so so sometimes like yeah My brain is actually totally empty and it’s just music and it’s just and also it’s just the color and light of being outside as you said and I definitely have Seasonal disorder and I don’t feel as happy this time of the year and I also think running and being outside really helps with that because it makes you kind of confront like, you know deal

with it change it’s getting darker like you like feel that it’s getting darker instead of like working away indoors and I think it’s really easy to say no I should just keep working for this other half an hour an hour but the running or not sorry just the running the what it is for each person like that is like the medicine yeah like it’s better for you than that

James (11:55)
And

it’s this time of year Holland & Barrett get me back as a customer and I’m chomping vitamin D like an absolute maniac to try and kind of counteract the shorter days and the kind of more oppressive evenings and it is just kind of you know whatever works and finding that way and finding it in a healthy way as well.

Sophie (12:15)
Definitely. ⁓

James (12:18)
What’s the small thing that always makes you smile?

Sophie (12:21)
Yeah, think I heard on your other podcast that someone else said this, I think it might be cats. OK. We actually we ⁓ in our like family household, we actually have like four cats at the moment. And yeah, I think that sometimes I I just feel like when you just see their faces, they’re just so silly and they’re just such clowns. And they just I think they’re just again, they’re really sensory beings. They’re just so and maybe because they’re so sort of tactile with their coats. So I think, ⁓ yeah, I think that I think cats, I’m going to say.

James (12:49)
Have you always had pets around the house? Has it always been a thing or have four cats are fairly new?

Sophie (12:53)
No, think

a lot of the time, I think when we were kids, ⁓ when we moved to this ⁓ really hectic farmhouse when I think I was four with my two brothers, I think that we had things like rabbits then. But I think actually, as soon as we moved in, our neighbours were like, we’re moving to London. Can you take these two cats? My parents said yes. And they said, they haven’t really even lived indoors. They’ve lived in barns. As soon as we lit the ray burn, like, yeah, they were in all the time. were in. Actually, one of them used to eat. She ate like donuts and she ate like bread and stuff.

older Siamese cat called Dotty. But yeah, I would say that we had cats then and then suddenly we had four cats, five cats, and the generations of cats have continued.

James (13:33)
If you had a free day with no plans, how would you spend it?

Sophie (13:36)
Yeah,

I think I’d, I really love…

Because of talking about loving looking at stuff, that can be quite open what that is, like whether that’s going to a really, I don’t know, like going to an amazing museum or going to see like live music or just visiting somewhere you haven’t done before or something like that. So I would say kind of doing something like that with my partner. And I would say that we just are quite relaxed about what that would be. He lives in London at the moment. So sometimes we’ve just kind of had fun days out where we’ve maybe had like one goal, like, should we go and try and see this at the Tate Modern or should we go and try and see this here?

But then we’ve just kind of let the rest of the day kind of meander. So I’d maybe say sort of slightly, not, yeah, kind of maybe a bit unplanned, but still maybe like a trip that is like to do something.

James (14:22)
Yeah and then the rest of the day kind of just unfolds. And do you find with your… when you kind have days out like that and you go and see galleries and that sort of thing, do you find your inspiration for your work ⁓ comes from those places or can come from anywhere?

Sophie (14:38)
Yeah, I think anywhere, I think anywhere a bit like ⁓ talking about being observant earlier. think that I, I think I get sometimes I get more excited by something really weird in the world and definitely really historical stuff too. Like I love historical documents and like fashion and like old homewares and domestic things. So I would say sometimes things like either in secondhand shops or museums or yes, that kind of exposure to things that are kind of of another world that that

kind of. ⁓

those kinds of items, I sometimes find those more inspirational, I would say, than looking around other types of contemporary art. But I think it’s, or doesn’t, the arts maybe not even always contemporary, in like maybe it’s from like a bit more historical. But I would say I find, I definitely find it exciting how different it is seeing artworks in real life to seeing the pictures. And I think maybe from being someone that sort of makes a lot of stuff with their hands, I think sometimes in this funny way, you almost get a bit like, how did that person finish this off? Or like when you see the paintings in real life, like these

kind of, yeah, either how shiny they are or how they’re framed or there’s sometimes there’s some really weird details that you’re just enjoying looking at as well.

James (15:47)
Absolutely. One of the other

spill guests that I’ve spoken to, he’s a photographer and raised a kind very interesting point about the difference between consuming art on a screen on a small device and actually being in an environment where the art is happening or is situated and the complete difference about how it grabs your attention, how you interact with it and just how you kind of perceive it is completely different to a doom scroll and kind of watching a

small image or a small video of what you’re seeing compared to being in the space and understanding what the artist’s motivation was by kind of reading the small card next to it and also interpreting it in your own way and how it just holds you, it demands your attention compared to it being on your screen for three seconds and then moving along.

Sophie (16:38)
Definitely. No, I I absolutely agree. And also when you think about it and sometimes when I’m editing a picture, I think about this. I’m like this this image is going to shrink down to like five centimeters by five centimeters, like this thing that you sometimes spend ages making when other people do consume it that way. And yeah, I definitely yeah, I definitely I think sometimes feel very jealous of music with that. Like this idea that maybe it can reach you like what we just talked about that experience visually of looking at something on your phone. I wonder if music in the way how it goes through the ears and

maybe sort of, yeah, hits you in a different way. I think you have a different experience with that, as I love seeing live music too, but I wonder, yeah, with art, as you say, because it is so visual, but it is sort of that physical presence does change.

James (17:21)
Yeah, think the comparison with music is interesting because I think how you digest music depends on how it reaches you. So I think, you know, if I want to really enjoy an album, I’ll put the vinyl on or I will kind of make sure that I don’t have random on whatever platform I’m using. Whereas.

I think the drive nowadays is there’s a broader sense of discovery because everything’s available, but you’re consuming it in a completely different way and not necessarily in the way that it was intended because some albums are stories from end to end and they take you on that journey, similar to how art does in that you have to kind of be in the space and you have to be in the right mindset to consume it.

Sophie (18:00)
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, like seeing a snapshot of a series that’s from a larger body of work. And yet with the music, yeah, similar. Yeah, maybe, ⁓ did it make sense on its own? Did I still like it? What? Yeah, yeah.

James (18:13)
What’s something that makes you lose track of time?

Sophie (18:16)
Yeah, think I general general I would say making stuff and then more specifically instead of the word stuff I would say probably the probably sewing which is one of the things that I think I do in my art practice the most and I would say partly because I’m so bad with time I always think that things are going to take less time than they do so when I’m making it I think that I’m not always conscious of how much time is passing and I think sometimes I I think it’s maybe slightly other things to do with like the type of practice it is like as in like

you get the work of the machine, get your adding the pieces together usually, your problem solving with, because I do a lot of patchwork, I’m sometimes jiggling things together which sometimes is a bit, yeah, can be a bit challenging and I think sometimes the combination of those challenges is you’re always listening to music or podcasts or audiobooks and then having that going at the same time. I think sometimes, yeah, that’s where time. Exactly, and I’m like, why can’t I see, why does that color blue look different now?

James (19:08)
Suddenly night time.

What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

Sophie (19:21)
I think…

It’s really difficult. think that actually one really recently I was speaking to an amazing artist who was my tutor when I was at the Royal College of Art and he’s been part of the Port to Port project. I’ve had some Develop Your Creative Practice Arts Council funding which has been absolutely amazing so I’ve gotten to speak to him again. So he’s Ivan Morrison, of Studio of Duo, he’s part of, sorry, a Duo Studio Morrison and he said sometimes he said when you’re making stuff he was

like don’t get hung up on some of those details that are taking you ages to make the decisions of and he was kind of saying if you know the fundamentals of the project and if you’re there’s some things you’re so sturdy in and obviously it takes a while to get sturdy in those fundamentals sometimes and the way you do that is different is different with each project but he kind of said like he was just like don’t let those little things get in the way he was like is it pink is it blue is it this and then he was just like it doesn’t matter he was like does it matter he was just he was just kind of like sometimes don’t get like stuck

on those things to kind of make the thing because they can, I don’t know, can, yeah, those small decisions can maybe consume you a bit.

James (20:29)
Yeah, they can be… the amount of time that they can suck up can be very converse to the actual final… what the final decision means about them. Like you say, is it blue, is it pink and that sort of thing. it’s kind of, don’t sweat the small stuff. Yes. Do you find… I know for me if I get stuck on the small stuff…

Sophie (20:48)
Yes.

James (20:56)
or that can’t solve a problem.

again it’s something I’ve only recently learned to get to grips with, is just walking away from it and then coming back again. Whereas rather than sitting there and ruminating into oblivion as to what colour this should be or how to progress this further over this what seems like a small hurdle but is building up and building up and building up, sometimes just walking away from it and then coming back to it after a bit of a break and just unblock it a little bit.

Sophie (21:26)
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it’s almost like you need to go and live a bit actually because yeah, you actually need the time away from it and even if that time’s really short and that’s the thing with deadlines, isn’t it? It’s like if you’re working to this deadline and then you’re trying to make decisions really quickly. But yeah, I have had a tutor in that line with what you just said then that was like, if you’re stuck, do something else and that kind of just let it sit there and then yeah, yeah, so now I agree totally.

James (21:48)
What’s something you’re excited to learn or try in the future?

Sophie (21:52)
And so for the Port to Port project, one of the things I haven’t managed yet to do is a sail making workshop. So I think that that’s coming next year and I might be going up to Orkney to do that. And yeah, just an incredible craft again, also on the endangered crafts list. And yeah, I’ve sort of been making these patchwork sales half from learning bits and pieces, from looking at them in real life, from YouTube and that kind of self-taught where you’re just kind of missing. Yeah, you’re missing. It’s something that I do in all kinds of processes, but until…

I get to speak to people that do it all the time and learn from them and sort of be around them. That’s where so much of all of that, I don’t know, just incredible sort of very unique knowledge sort of gets passed through more of those moments. So yeah, I would say getting to do that.

James (22:37)
So is there, is Orkney still a fair, I don’t know if hotbed is the right description, but for sailmaking in the more traditional industries? Because I guess they are a very small island and they still rely on their own resources and their own skills because they’re so isolated. So are things like that still more prevalent in those geographies compared to kind of more mainland or like Lowestoft than that sort of thing where fishing has

has kind of the industry had its moment and passed and is now moving towards tourism whereas a much smaller island we perhaps still rely on it more.

Sophie (23:13)
Yeah, think so. There was only two places in the kind of aisles that would do sailmaking and it was in Lyme Regis, so down on the south, like super far down, and then Orkney. And I think that it’s so rare for some of the boat building colleges and sort of institutions to still be there. Really sadly, there was one in Lower Stuff, they didn’t actually do sailmaking, but they did some of the other courses. But they actually shut only this January, So there was one there that you could still go and learn.

these incredible heritage and really long skills like all the boat building skills to taking years to learn. So yeah, I do wonder. think sometimes it’s a really weird mix of things that allow something to stay open, know, that’s something to get preserved. And sometimes it’s even the thing of someone owning the building that cares about what’s happening in it enough. I sometimes think you need a perfect storm. That’s the word I was looking for. I sometimes feel like you need a perfect storm of things.

to kind of keep you going. So I’m afraid I don’t know the intricacies of theirs, but I imagine that, ⁓ yeah, there is some really interesting sort of crafts and things still going on there.

James (24:24)
What’s one thing you’d like listeners to take away from this conversation?

Sophie (24:28)
Well, I think we talked a bit about this earlier, that idea that when you talk to different people and sort of hear how their brains work a bit, that sometimes there’s like a little piece of that. And even if it’s just like a moment or something that you’ve been thinking about in your own mind a bit, that when someone else says it, you’ll go, ⁓ yeah, I do that too. Or you go, I thought that that was bad that I did that. But that’s that person’s all made it normal. Or, yeah, I just feel like the world’s been like a very stressful place recently. And I really enjoy listening to

podcasts and people talk about things so I guess just any any moments of enjoying.

James (25:03)
Yeah,

and it’s one of the things that’s come up a lot through the episodes that I’ve recorded so far is the kind of knowledge and understanding can come from absolutely anywhere and It’s not always in a in a guidebook and it’s not always in where you think it’s gonna come from It can sometimes be from the most unexpected place, but you can kind of go. Oh, that’s made it I understand why I do what I do now and it’s it doesn’t it’s normalized it’s a

tricky word I suppose. It’s made it more relatable for me to understand how I think sometimes or what I do what I do and there’s a little bit of comfort that someone else out there that does it and this is their way of coping which I think is kind of really useful both for me talking to other people and then also people listening hopefully are going to take something from it as well. And what’s next for you?

Sophie (25:55)
I totally agree.

So Port to Port is now open at The Hold in Ipswich, the home of the Suffolk Archives. So it’s on until the 30th of October as part of Spill Festival and it’s produced with the Art Station who are based in Saxmundham but work all over the region. art workshops part of Spill Festival this Saturday. So that’s at The Hold.

is via Spill website and there’s lots of ⁓ information online about what time it is and what types of printmaking we’re doing and there’s also some dances that are going to be performing at the Spill Festival at Holt this Saturday at 1.30 as well. So yeah it’s kind of like preparing for those weekend events and then I think the rest of the year I’m sort of like catching up with commissions and having some quieter studio times after having some quite ⁓ like manic months. Thank you for having me!

James (26:50)
Thanks, Sophie.